Friday, December 19, 2008

Bizui Talmidei Chachamim-וכל המבזה את החכמים--אין לו חלק לעולם הבא Repost to illustrate faulty Methodology

I have left this post as is to illustrate the OPPOSITE of what I was explaining in the post immediately above this. The major mistake that I committed was to ingore the end of the chapter. I read the entire chapter , as I should have and then conveniently forgot it. Thus, I violated one of my rules and " CHERRY PICKED" a halacha. What resulted was a 'problem' that did not exist.


משוך חסדך, ליודעיך; וצדקתך, לישרי לב
" O continue Thy lovingkindness unto them that know Thee; and Thy righteousness to the upright in heart

The laws pertaining to Talmidei Chachamim are codified by the Rambam in the Laws of Talmud Torah. There are two commandments in this section:

יש בכללן שתי מצוות עשה--(א) ללמוד תורה; (ב) לכבד מלמדיה ויודעיה. וביאור שתי מצוות אלו בפרקים אלו
A) to Learn Torah B) To honor its teachers and those who know it.

Chapter Six law 13:
יג [יא] עוון גדול הוא לבזות את החכמים, או לשנוא אותן: לא חרבה ירושלים, עד שביזו בה תלמידי חכמים--שנאמר "ויהיו מלעיבים, במלאכי האלוהים, ובוזים דבריו, ומיתעתעים בנביאיו" (דברי הימים ב לו,טז), כלומר בוזים מלמדי דבריו. וכן זה שאמרה תורה, "אם בחוקותיי תמאסו" (ויקרא כו,טו)--מלמדי חוקותיי תמאסו. וכל המבזה את החכמים--אין לו חלק לעולם הבא, והרי הוא בכלל "כי דבר ה' בזה" (במדבר טו,לא

" It is a tremendous sin to denegrate Chachamim, or to hate them. Jerusalem was only destroyed after Talmidei Chachamim were denegrated in it, as the verse states ,'16 but they mocked the messengers of God, and despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets,{ until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy}' Which means the degradation of the teachers of his word. This is like what the Torah states, '15 and if ye shall reject My statutes, {and if your soul abhor Mine ordinances, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but break My covenant}', the teachers of my ordinances you reject. Anyone who degrades Chachamim has no portion in the World to Come, and he is in the category of '31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken His commandment; that soul shall utterly be cut off, his iniquity shall be upon him.'


It would appear that the degradation of a Talmid Chacham is a major infraction. It is such an imperfaction that the person who commits this act loses his share in the world to come. What is the sin in denegrating a Chacham?Furthermore, the Rambam delineates those who lose thier portion in the world to come in the laws of repentance and does not mention " Hamevazeh talmideai Chachamim" how do we resolve this discrepancy.
יד [ו] ואלו שאין להן חלק לעולם הבא, אלא נכרתין ואובדין, ונידונין על גודל רשעם וחטאתם, לעולם ולעולמי עולמים: המינים, והאפיקורוסים, והכופרים בתורה, והכופרים בתחיית המתים, והכופרים בביאת הגואל, והמשומדים, ומחטיאי הרבים, והפורשים מדרכי ציבור, והעושה עבירות ביד רמה בפרהסיה כיהויקים, והמוסרים, ומטילי אימה על הציבור שלא לשם שמיים, ושופכי דמים, ובעלי לשון הרע, והמושך עורלתו

The following types of people have no share in the World to Come, and are cut off, destroyed and excommunicated for ever on account of their very great sins and wickedness: A Min; am Apikores; one who denies the Torah; one who denies that there will be a Resurrection; one who denies that there will be a Redemption; one who converts from Judaism; one who causes a lot of people to sin; one who withdraws from communal ways; one who publicly sins in a defiant way like Jehoiakim did; an informer [against Jews]; one who instills fear in the congregation but not in the Name of God; a murderer; one who relates loshan ho'rah; and one who pulls back his foreskin.

The Rambam details the definition of each and everyone of the types of person that lose their portion in the later laws. However, he does not mention the previously stated law of one who disgraces Talmidei Chachamim. What is the general concept of Chelek Olam Habah and what would it mean to lose the Chelek. Additionally what is the principle governing the Rambam's listing?

To be continued...




7 comments:

Matt said...

Ya'akob,

I believe the Rambam answers your question explicitly (or uproots its premise) if you read on:

כד [יד] כל אחד ואחד מארבעה ועשרים אנשים אלו שמנינו--אף על פי שהן ישראל, אין להן חלק לעולם הבא. ויש עבירות קלות מאלו, ואף על פי כן אמרו חכמים שהרגיל בהן אין לו חלק לעולם הבא, כדי להתרחק מהן ולהיזהר מהן.

ואלו הן: המכנה את חברו, והקורא לחברו בכינוי, והמלבין פני חברו ברבים, והמתכבד בקלון חברו, והמבזה תלמידי חכמים, והמבזה רבותיו, והמבזה את המועדות, והמחלל את הקודשים.

If I am reading the Rambam correctly, then the sin of denigrate talmidei chachamim does not cause one to lose his chelek in Olam ha'Ba. Rather, as the Rambam says, the Sages said that one who habitually denigrates talmidei chachamim doesn't have a chelek in Olam ha'Ba. They said this, not because it is literally true (as in the cases outlined above), but "in order to distance [people] from [this sin] and to warn [people] of it".

Ya'akob ibn Avi Mori said...

Matt,
I saw this , it is true that it would answer the question but something still bothers me, I will have to formulate my problems better, thanks for bringing this up.

Seventy Five Mitzvos said...

And this would be a reaction to... [takes much time to think]

You should go with the yeshvish people on this.

Ya'akob ibn Avi Mori said...

Seventy Five,

Im not following what you are saying?

Seventy Five Mitzvos said...

Ok- first of all, please ignore the second part of my comment. It was completely unneccessary and displayed extremely poor taste on my part.

What I was saying is that I am assuming your post is a reaction to the comments regarding your Rebbe over at Matt's blog. Since it's only fair to be honest to you, I respect the extreme committment to and defense of ideas you feel are true that both you and Matt have. I learn a lot from both of you.

Ya'akob ibn Avi Mori said...

Seventy Five,
thanks. Chag Sameach ( Jag Sameaj, Hag Sameah etc.)

Seventy Five Mitzvos said...

Nope. English speaking.